Standard Rifle

[output01x]

Well Tony, if you are going to be insulting, you should at least give reasons.

While the VSR isn't known as being the best sniper rifle out there, it also isn't known as the worst. Marui makes good guns, there is no denying that. They are quality made and can accept upgrades well. A clone obviously would not have such quality, but is capable of accepting upgrades to become a better rifle. Judgeman, just make sure you research your clone well and find out what things to watch out for (external and internal parts, stress points, etc.).

But please, Tony, if there is something you know about the VSR that makes it the worst sniper rifle, please impart your knowledge to us.

[tony81]

Not only did I just use an opinion, I wasn't insultious at all. I didn't say he was stupid or anything, I just said that I hope he doesn't plan on sniping with it unless he is playing against other springer. Wich by the way is very good advise.
Then, I clearly stated what I thought was a good sniper rifle and showed that I had previous sniper rifle experience, If I was going to buy a Cybergun to be an Automatic Rifleman, I would hope one of you would object.

yeah...

P.S.
I have owned debatably the best sniper, Highly upgraded APS2-SV.
I have also owned debatably the worst "Sniper",the Super 9.

And in my huble opinion I would Compare the VSR, much more a clone to the Super 9 rather then the aps2 ANY day of the week.

[judgeman]

It's mostly about budget. I have none, so that's why I get the cheepos

[cfhdavid]

judgeman said:

It's mostly about budget. I have none, so that's why I get the cheepos

I learned to have patience. I bought the UTG MP5 Version 2 as my first gun. When I got my CA, I realized that it would have been so much better if I had saved that $110 a little while and gone straight to one of the higher end guns. I still regret it today.

[output01x]

tony81 said:

P.S.
I have owned debatably the best sniper, Highly upgraded APS2-SV.
I have also owned debatably the worst "Sniper",the Super 9.

A sniper is a person. A sniper rifle is a gun.

Also, I have seen and had the opportunity to use a well maintained and upgraded Marui VSR. Honestly, it shot pretty d*mn well. I was nearly hitting with pinpoint accuracy at over 100 feet. While yes, the APS2 is debatedly one of the best sniper rifles out there, one cannot count out the VSR. Comparing the APS2 to the VSR is like comparing a Classic Army to an ICS. Each have their own advantages and disadvantages but in the end, it all comes down to what the owner wants. So Tony, please do not tell people to keep away from the VSR as though it is the plague. Marui makes excellent guns and the VSR is no different. If you want to tell people to stay away from something, then tell them to stay away from things that really are bad, like the Super 9 or the USR.

[tony81]

Don't you guys have an entire thread on what retailers to ignore... seems to me that is exactly the same as me cautioning him to not buy the VSR.

In airsoft any non crappy gun is going to be comparable to any other gun, (EG TM P90, APS2 sv) Well very different, the aps2-sv can only outrange the P90 so much.
Bassicly what I am getting at is:

If I had a scale of 1-10 for airsoft guns:
1-5 crappy springers
6-8 Most AEGs and other rifles
9-10 Highly upgraded and very nice guns.
So in retro spect the scale only goes from 6-10
There buy each point up makes it vastly better,
So if the VSR is a 6-7 and the APS is an 7-9
It makes about as big difference as airsoft can in guns that are used...
Hope that makes sence.

Oh, and just so I put some Topic worthy words in here:
In WW2 a Squad would have the following
M1 Garands
M1 Carbines
BAR
M3a1/M1a1
Sniper rifle (Springfield varient)
In the Viet Nam war we used the M1 Garande, but then switched to the M16A1.
No one like them because they jammed far to easy (and other things)
The army then sent in simple cleaning kits and it was a vast improvement.
Still, the VC would not touch the 'inferior' rifles.

Some people love the M16 and some call it debabtably the worst mass produced rifle ever.
Myself, bah, I don't approve of it to much.
Even though the BAR is one of the best service rifles ever, it was replaced.

We have obviously upgraded to the M16A2 and soon the M8 (soposively)

There is some info on our rifle history.

[output01x]

tony81 said:

If I had a scale of 1-10 for airsoft guns:
1-5 crappy springers
6-8 Most AEGs and other rifles
9-10 Highly upgraded and very nice guns.
So in retro spect the scale only goes from 6-10
There buy each point up makes it vastly better,
So if the VSR is a 6-7 and the APS is an 7-9
It makes about as big difference as airsoft can in guns that are used...
Hope that makes sence.

That makes sense and I won't argue with you on that, since that is more an opinion than a statement. However, if you rate the VSR as a 6-7, how could you claim that it would only be usable against springers?

If one were to purchase a VSR and upgrade it to around 500 FPS (which is definitely doable) with a good tightbore in it (6.03 to 6.01), one could easily outrange many AEGs. So long as the person that is using it is doing so intelligently (not being extremely visible, moving a lot, making lots of noise, firing on a group of 20 people, etc.), it could definitely be a formidable weapon.

A good friend of mine uses a VSR and fields it quite effectively. He knows how to lay in wait for extended periods of time, how to pick his shots, and when to turn tail instead of dying.

Tony, keep in mind that if there were two people in a backyard, one with a VSR and one with an upgraded AEG, your statement could possibly be correct. The individual with the VSR could quite possibly have problems against the individual with the AEG. However, in a MILSIM environment, with acres of land between the two forces and multiple objectives, an individual with a VSR could do quite well if using it appropriately.

[tony81]

You don't seem to get it...
What you are saying, everything you have said does not make your point stronger, it does that to mine.
You are saying you have to be stealthy and be a good shooter, but you can do that with anygun, I could snipe people with a freaking m60.
If you are saying that it is the person that makes the gun better, you don't know what you are talking about.
First off:
1.)

However, if you rate the VSR as a 6-7, how could you claim that it would only be usable against springers?

Because that wouild make it better then springers, thusly making it better.
It does not however make it effective against guns of the same rating, which have full auto.

2.)

Tony, keep in mind that if there were two people in a backyard, one with a VSR and one with an upgraded AEG, your statement could possibly be correct

It doesn't matter where you are or what you are doing, If I was stealthy with a P90, I could beat any sniper because my gun is virtually the same only it has full auto.

All and all:
You were toalking about the player, I was talking about the gun.

To bolster my point - I don't care how good you are, you will always be better not using a bolt action sniper.
Though this makes your first shot accurate it doesn't help you in any close range combat, which sad to say it, is all airsoft can do.

If airsoft snipers could shoot a mile, then yeah you could have a point, but they don't.

Here is something for you to bring home and chew on.
(all numbers are random)

Say a highly upgraded VSR could hit a person consistently at 150 feet.

Say a standard P90 could consistently hit someone at 75 feet.

Seems like a lot right?
Wrong
First you must factor in the shooter, which can not always hit the same place no matter how good the gun,
Lets take a look now.
VSR - 140 (longer ranges suffer longer losses.)
P90 - 70

then in airsoft you must factor in wind.
VSR - 100 (random amount of wind, the longer the bb flies the more effected it is).
P90 - 55

Then the golden rule, in a combat posistion you always have to cut your accuracy in half. No matter how calm you think you are. By the way, that is pretty much undebatable.

VSR - 50 feet
P90 - 28 Feet

In the end you come down with a figure that shows you how close ALL airsoftguns operate alike.

Airsoft is not real no matter how much you might compoare it, these wepons all operate to an airsoft standard which is not a scale of one to ten it is a scale from 4-6.

Thank you.

A sniper is a person. A sniper rifle is a gun

.

Oh, and obviously I know that, it is just shorter to say that.

[output01x]

tony81 said:

Because that wouild make it better then springers, thusly making it better.
It does not however make it effective against guns of the same rating, which have full auto.

So you are saying that a gun's ability to fire in full auto makes it better? So I guess that means that the M14 isn't that good since it is only semi auto

The point of a bolt action rifle is precision and power. The ability to spit out round after round is unnecessary. With a highly upgraded VSR shooting at 500 FPS with a 6.01 inner barrel, you can easily outrange a 400 FPS AEG.

Tony, please understand that I have a good deal of experience in the field. I have attended events by TF Blackeagle, TAC, Strikers, and John Lu. The statements I make are done so out of what I have seen and experienced in multiple types of environments, be them woodland, MOUT, or CQB. I have seen nearly every airsoft gun in action and been hit by many of them

[Hawk]

I have an M16A4 DMR and I have 8 mags at 100rds a peice and one 350rd mag...I'm packin

We would have to mark our mags in our own way to know who's was who's.

[Hawk]

tony81 said:

You don't seem to get it...
What you are saying, everything you have said does not make your point stronger, it does that to mine.
You are saying you have to be stealthy and be a good shooter, but you can do that with anygun, I could snipe people with a freaking m60.
If you are saying that it is the person that makes the gun better, you don't know what you are talking about.
First off:
1.)

However, if you rate the VSR as a 6-7, how could you claim that it would only be usable against springers?

Because that wouild make it better then springers, thusly making it better.
It does not however make it effective against guns of the same rating, which have full auto.

2.)


It doesn't matter where you are or what you are doing, If I was stealthy with a P90, I could beat any sniper because my gun is virtually the same only it has full auto.

All and all:
You were toalking about the player, I was talking about the gun.

To bolster my point - I don't care how good you are, you will always be better not using a bolt action sniper.
Though this makes your first shot accurate it doesn't help you in any close range combat, which sad to say it, is all airsoft can do.

If airsoft snipers could shoot a mile, then yeah you could have a point, but they don't.

Here is something for you to bring home and chew on.
(all numbers are random)

Say a highly upgraded VSR could hit a person consistently at 150 feet.

Say a standard P90 could consistently hit someone at 75 feet.

Seems like a lot right?
Wrong
First you must factor in the shooter, which can not always hit the same place no matter how good the gun,
Lets take a look now.
VSR - 140 (longer ranges suffer longer losses.)
P90 - 70

then in airsoft you must factor in wind.
VSR - 100 (random amount of wind, the longer the bb flies the more effected it is).
P90 - 55

Then the golden rule, in a combat posistion you always have to cut your accuracy in half. No matter how calm you think you are. By the way, that is pretty much undebatable.

VSR - 50 feet
P90 - 28 Feet

In the end you come down with a figure that shows you how close ALL airsoftguns operate alike.

Airsoft is not real no matter how much you might compoare it, these wepons all operate to an airsoft standard which is not a scale of one to ten it is a scale from 4-6.

Thank you.

A sniper is a person. A sniper rifle is a gun

.

Oh, and obviously I know that, it is just shorter to say that.

It's not how good your gun is, it's the person holding it that makes the difference. I can take a .22 pistol and hit a rifle target dead on at 100yards with iron sights...and with a rifle I make one hole and I put every single round in after it. Take an idiot and tell him to do that...

I made a Super 9 Pro the most dangerous weapon on the feild when I had one. I could pick off people with impossible shots, but any other couldn't do squat. When someone hears Super 9 they think POS...but I say, "try me"...and you will lose. I was skilled at it...I could lay down and take a precision shot, or I could empty the 25round mag in a matter of seconds with every round right on target.

You tell me bolt actions are no good....HA!

I carry both a full and a bolt...the full is MADE to be a marksman rifle, and for unprecidented accuracy I hit up my L96. I've seen some full autos in action...I could stand still and almost have the urge to move out of the way. The sewing machine is kind of a givaway...but the smooth slide of a bolt and the quick pop of the shot is a lot less noticable.

It depends on your situation...and your personal preference...if you like autos...okay....just don't whine when you need someone picked off that you can't hit or if all of a sudden you have a pock mark on your cheek from god knows where.